Turkish youth in Germany?
Lately, I have read many horrible (and racist) things about the Turkish community in Germany. That the Turks were in gangs, harassing people on subways and generally have lots of problems. I don't know if this is completely true or not.. all I know is that it is semi-true from the online sound of things. I just want to establish that in Australia, Turks are doing very well with the majority of students going to university, getting degrees and leading positive, fulfilling and healthy lives. My uncle is a lawyer, my aunt is a nurse, my mother an IT consultant, my father a restranteur, my grandfather an engineer and I plan on studying a BA in Journalism in the coming months. What is your view on Turkish-German youth and have you had any good/bad experiences with them? hey, I'm not saying Turks are perfect, all I'm saying is that I hear Turks feel alienated over in Germany/Netherlands/Belgium, but over here we have intergrated well into Australian society. Many of my cousins have Aussie wives. I'm just very curious as to what's happening over there, I've heard many stories
Other - Germany - 10 Answers
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1 :
My only direct experience with young Turkish people in Germany has been the many friendly, helpful employees and owners of businesses. In particular, there are many Döner-Kebap restaurants and stands run by young Turkish men who are friendly, non-threatening, and pleasant. As an American who speaks little to no German, I find these Turkish shopkeepers to be far more friendly and accommodating than their German counterparts. Usually there are a couple of younger Turkish boys hanging out or working at the Döner restaurants, who also strike me as friendly and nonthreatening. I feel that's generally the case when I see all varieties of Southeastern European immigrants in Germany - driving taxis, riding the subway, and wherever I encounter them around town. I think it's very similar to the situation with Latino immigrants in the United States: Some people feel uncomfortable when they encounter foreigners in their hometown, and any time they see a large group of immigrants their minds leap to ideas of gangs, crime, violence, etc. even when it couldn't be further from the truth. I see Turkish immigrants to Germany, and Mexican immigrants to the US, as people who have taken a great leap of faith to travel to a new country in search of employment and opportunity to create a better life for themselves and their families.
2 :
There is a VERY large Turkish population in Germany. It can be understandable that there are some who may behave as you say. Also, Turkish men can be very misunderstood. They all think of themselves as very attractive, and if a woman gives them any kind of attention they think this means you want their attention -- this could be perceived as harassment to others. There is a big cultural difference, and even though there are many Turks who are acclimated to their adoptive country, there will always be a slight divide and misunderstanding. Not all Turks are bad. In fact, my boyfriend is Turkish, and I find they generally treat people (women in particular) very well.
3 :
Actually what you have heard is true to a huge % of the youth.(at least in bigger cities) That isnt racist. Come to germany and go into a club..after you go out, you should get a cut near the throat and almost die(like my friend) then you think differently The funny thing: for absolute nothing..you dont need to have done anything. Actually i only know about the bigger cities..dont know about small towns But in bigger cities they normaly build ´´gangs´´ with their family and other sometimes they come with 20 men then... If you look strange at them normally then comes an invitation for a nice beating(only from the turks who feel strong alone too..not many) But normally they dont harass people in subways In general they have alots of trouble. Is it not wanting to work..not wanting to go to school or criminal activities or the things above. exceptions proof the rule Im always annoyed when a foreigner tries to say something about it and we are racist against them or so without knowing anything
4 :
i live in a small town in germany and the turks here are just like everybody else oO there are really nice people and then there are some idiots.. but it's the same with the germans.. ^^ soooo basically there are idiots in every culture, it's just that the turks stand out in germany because they often don't speak german very well. these "big-city-problems" as described in an answer above basically don't exist here in the small town =)
5 :
Well, the turkish "youth" in their middle to late 20s say it was much easier for them to integrate into German society, since there were not that many Turkish people in Germany, and they needed to interact with their German classmates and neighbors, so of course they learned the language better, did better in school, went further in school, got apprenticeships more easily (it's unfair to only put that down to language skills, though, because economy was different 10 years back, too). There were not as many Muslim prayer rooms or Moshes (Spelling??? :( Sorry.), no Turkish sport clubs, no "only women" opening hours at pools... they needed to live in a country where they needed to integrate into the existing society because there simply were not enough of them to build up the structures they were used to having. Now there are many more Muslims, not necessarily just Turkish people, in Germany, and they live in "ghettos", meaning they live in parts of the town, mostly, where there is assisted housing from the state. THis, though unwanted by the state, supports them in clinging together as a group (they are in a foreign country that dos not understand their customs and traditions, nor respect them sometimes, and many of them do not speak the language (well). Plus, the structures here often support the more fundamentalist in their believe (because the morals from the 50's and 60's are what the old men who often sit at the head of the community know and perceive as "normal", even though in their home country, those morals are outdated now), and that eases the way for fathers to dominate their families in a "traditional" way. Often the teenage sons are lambs at home, honoring their elders, being nice as pie to everyone, and than when they are out in town with their fiends, they "flip", because they need to have some sort of feeling of control over something. Harassing people, especially people who obviously don't have anything to do with their community, in such an anonymous surrounding as a subway (I guess they are not thinking of the cameras) is an easy outlet for them. There was one incident this year where three Turkish kids severely beat up an old German man in the subway because he reminded them that smoking was forbidden. A typical "I'm the old, law-abiding citizen, and you are just three youths not knowing how to accept boundaries or behave correctly". Had he been a member of the Turkish community, chances are they would have said sorry and extinguished their smokes. He wasn't, though. I'm not saying the old guy made himself a victim, but with the Turkish kids, there are mostly two sides of the medal. Which also makes it so difficult for the two cultures. Often social workers are simply told: "You don't understand. This is our culture, these are our morals, you can't come in and destroy our morals just because we live in this country." To which one becomes sometimes tempted to reply: "You can't come in and destroy our country just because you want to live with your morals!" (if you want to express it that drastically and directly). And I'm not saying Turks are villains. I have Turkish friends who went to school with me, and they are nice, generous, warm and friendly people, open and welcoming, who will explain their customs when I ask, and, though they are somewhat fundamentalist, will listen to your side of the story, too, and discuss. Both of them (she and her brother) are studying and doing well, don't live in assisted housing, have jobs and own a house/ think of building one. The daughter is married (to a Turkish guy) and has two kids (while studying), and while she is independent and modern, she loves the fact that the structures and traditions are there to support her (kids are with Grandma in "the ghetto" when Mom goes to school). At home, she speaks Turkish with her kids. One could go on talking about the real hate crimes and "honor murders" going on in Germany, but: Yes, they happen, no question about that. Do they happen often: No. I do not believe it is a common thing, I think it is a horrible way of thinking of some horrible people. There are horrible people in all parts of the world, of every religion, in every country, in all parts of society.
6 :
i am english and have lived in germany for 16yrs i live in a large city, and we have a lot of turkish people here you are right, there are a lot of gangs of youths roaming the streets, causing trouble etc etc and there are gangs of turkish youths doing this, but not just turkish, we have so many different nationalities here
7 :
Hey Kaile, people like you are not the problem --- the problem are guys not going to school, robbing, dealing etc. German government spend a lot of money to integrate foreigners to german society. But turks have in a lot of german cities their own townships and that are no go areas for the others. (I must say, that is not true for Hamburg, but if you will have problems with a young guy --- it wil be not a russian, not an african, not an asian --- it will be a turk. The real problem --- german jurisdiction is worse. You see there was a young guy --- he made 63 robberies up to the age of 14. There was a big blablabla and they send him to Turkey. At that time crime of young foreigners decreased by 18%. But some times later they let him return and one year later they send him one and a half year to prison and that is a lot for a youngster in Germany. If you are a friendly normal citizen and you have problems with another one --- I bet the other one is a Turk --- that is the problem. It is not the problem --- that there are a lot of honest Turk people ---- but who likes always be compared with criminals ---- so very much honest turks flee off the country ---- that is the other problem. In the last 20 years I had 2 problems it were problems with turks. But I also have found some turk friends.
8 :
I lived in the infamous Kreuzberg district of Berlin, Germany's capital, and must say I never felt endangerd by the Turkish Youth Gangs (well, that's exaggerated in itself: They're not much more than we were when we were young), and I'd still feel safe there. One of my best friends (Turkish, by birth, German, by nationality) keeps joking about them in his Turkish language, which I don't perfectly understand. As I lived with Turkish Youth in Berlin, I'd stick with Douglas Adams' description in the "Hitchhiker's Guide": "Mostly Harmless." That doesn't mean that they're always harmless. I'm usually harmless, too, but can arrange for a beating when racist people (what we call "neo-Nazis") come along. The Turks I know feel well integrated into our society, and those who don't should think it over. And "Islam", as I learned, is not at all a uniform religion; it has as many facets and variations as Christianity. I talked a lot with Turkish people about their religion, and it made me read the Q'ran, and I found that it is a book among others, like the Bible, or the Bhagavad-Gita. There's some wisdom in it, but in "wisdom", there's "wise", so you have to treat it wisely.
9 :
as everywhere there's some sort of alienation. minorities have the tendency to become conservative when it comes to their values. so there's both, integrated turks (insert any other minority) and the frustrated ones who seek violence (gangs, fundamentalists). though of course that goes for the frustrated germans as well (gangs, hooligans, nazis...).
10 :
There are many good answers here already. One fact still missing - the change of society and the increase of poverty. This causes people who would normally be in jobs to sit on the streets and look for excitement in their dull surrounding. This stands for some Turkish juveniles as good as for some Germans or other nations' kids. The German ones shout, how bad the Turkish, Italian, Morocco (name the countries) are. The louder they shout and write in outlets like this, the more they are heard. Still, they are not many - just noisy. And they are taken much too serious. Nevertheless, after 9/11 mistrust developed towards people with muslim religion, sad to say. This resulted into the fact, that they, of course, moved together more closely and kept to themselves. Now, if a group keeps to themselves - more mistrust develops. Plus, the old conservative rules come out stronger - i.e. Turkish girls must marry Turkish boys, etc. This again finds even less understanding in German "simple framed" heads.... All together, in the normal German life you don't really find problems. Even the little wannabe Nazi buys his "Döner" at the Turkish shop not thinking about, who is serving him. :-)
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