Question for German Shepherd breeders, owners, trainers, etc.?
I am currently a college student and I plan on getting a German Shepherd Dog when I graduate in about 3 years. I have been planning this for a long time. I've wanted one ever since I was a child, and I've done lots of research on the breed. I have owned and trained many different kinds of dogs including: Rotties, pits, goldens, huskies, labs, pyrenease, and a sheltie. I have worked in different veterinary hospitals for almost 10 years, so I'm knowledgable about the many different types of potential health problems GSD's and dogs in general can have, including hip problems. After evaluating my own personality type and learning that of the german shepherd's, I discovered this dog would be a perfect match for me. I know (almost) exactly what I'm looking for. I want a large (larger than usual) male that is a little more laid back and submissive. The dog would mostly just be my personal pet, but I am planning on training him to be a therapy dog to visit hospitals and nursing homes. I would also do agility with him (mostly just for fun, not too much for competition). I am also a very active person, I would take him swimming, hiking, camping with me on a regular basis. He would need to be extreamly good natured as he will have to tolerate kids, loud noises, eldery, etc. I am still confused as to the different blood lines. What is the difference between American show dog, American working dog, German working lines, Germans show lines, etc? Which type do you think would be good for me? I don't really like the dramatic "slope" of the american show dog's back, plus I heard that's bad for their hips. Also, can anyone suggest a few breeders? I live in southern california, but I am willing to get a GSD anywhere if they are acceptional quality. Which bloodlines are more expensive? What about purchasing from a breeder FROM Germany? Would it be worth it to do it that way? Also ANY other kind of information you can give me about GSD's would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys! sorry, I didn't mean it that way (the bigger than usual). I meant that I have seen really big GSD's and really small GSD's and I preferred one of the larger ones. Of course, I would never buy a puppy from a breeder that wasn't breeding the dogs to its standards. I would never wish for a dog to have bad hips just because I "want him big". That would be selfish on my part. Sorry that I said it wrong.
Dogs - 5 Answers
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1 :
I would think that showlines would be the most expensive, but I'm not quite sure. I would recommend getting one bred for show, just because they are bred just on their looks. German Shepherd Dogs bred for for working, are FAR more likely to be energetic and restless. My grandfather has 2 German Shepherd Dogs. He got one from a show breeder, and he got one from a breeder that bred shepherds JUST for agility. His show bred dog was much more relaxed, but his agility bred one was extremely fast and was much more obediant. Of course this could just be because of the individual dog, but it could also be because of their bloodlines. I like puppyfind.com, but I would only get one from their if they have their own seperate website, breed ONLY german shepherd dogs, and have proof of their dogs winning in competitions. A well bred German Shepherd Dog costs no less than $800. I no of no German Breeders myself, but I have heard that many are exceptional quality. Good luck in your search for a great dog :) I have a German Shepherd mix puppy at the moment and she is extremely smart and beautiful :) What the heck is with the thumbs down?
2 :
I don't know much about German Shepard in the show rings. I base my knowledge on the dogs I've met in the animal shelter I volunteer at. But I know a bit abouy how vets for CHD. Here is some information on the two different ways of testing for Canine Hip Dysplasia and Osteoarthritis. There is the traditional American method Called the OFA (orthopedic foundation for Animals) method. Then there is a newer method called the PennHip Method. The researchers at the university of Pennsylvania did a comparison study of the OFA method and the PennHip method (click the link for more info http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.237.5.532) The objective "to compare 2 screening methods for detecting evidence of hip dysplasia (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals [OFA] and PennHIP) in dogs" The procedure "439 dogs ≥ 24 months of age that received routine hip joint screening from June 1987 through July 2008. Dogs were sedated, and PennHIP radiography was performed (hip joint– extended [HE], compression, and distraction radiographic views). The HE radiographic view was submitted for OFA evaluation. A copy of the HE radiographic view plus the compression and distraction radiographic views were submitted for routine PennHIP evaluation, including quantification of hip joint laxity via the distraction index (DI)." The result "14% (60/439) of dogs had hip joints scored as excellent by OFA standards; however, 52% (31/60) of those had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, 0.14 to 0.61). Eighty-two percent of (183/223) dogs with OFA-rated good hip joints had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, 0.10 to 0.77), and 94% (79/84) of dogs with OFA-rated fair hip joints had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, 0.14 to 0.77). Of all dogs with fair to excellent hip joints by OFA standards, 80% (293/367) had a DI ≥ 0.30. All dogs with OFA-rated borderline hip joints or mild, moderate, or severe hip dysplasia had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, 0.30 to 0.83)." In other words most of the dogs deemed fit to breed by the OFA method, were higher then the PennHip DI scale of 0.30 meaning they are not considered good breeding candidates. Try to find out what method of testing was used by the breeders. See if you can find anyone tested with the PennHip method.
3 :
@ Laura - I did not give you the TD, but I strongly disagree with you i disagree that showlines would be most expensive. I also have a huge problem with suggesting buying a dog bred for looks alone. That is a HUGE problem, especially in a working breed. Good breeders breed for standard. The standard is much more than just looks, it includes temperament as well. To the OP "I want a large (larger than usual) male that is a little more laid back and submissive" Then don't get a GSD. If you don't want what the breed is, select another breed that better suits what you want. Size standards are there for a reason. As is the temperament. This is a WORKING breed. As I said, good breeders breed for standard. They don't intentionally produce oversized dogs because they understand why the standard matters. Here is a link to the distinctions between the lines plus some other articles you should read if considering http://www.wildhauskennels.com/articles.htm Personally, if t hasn't been proven working and breed surveyed (conformation rating) I am not interested. As I already said, it's a working breed, form AND function matter. I would not consider a showlines dog unless I had proof it could perform the function of the breed. You are wasting time and money importing from Germany. There is no need and unless you know what you are looking for, it isn't a great idea. Keep in mind that all GSDs there need to be titled in Schutzhund or Herding. You are right to want to avoid the ski slope back of the American but please don't make the mistake of going the opposite way. The breed is meant to have a slope, just not the extreme one found in American lines. Here is a great article http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/12_Type_Comparison/Comparison_Types.html I am sorry if I was harsh, but I strongly disagree with watering down a work breed. What MAKES this breed the great breed it is is the sharpness, intelligence and drive that it is meant to have. It is much more than looks.
4 :
Don't get any dog that is not bred to the standard (ie an oversized dog). Maximum acceptable height for an American GSD is 26" for a male and about half an inch smaller for a male from Europe. Anyone who is intentionally breeding over sized dogs is not breeding for the best interests of the breed or for the healthiest dogs. Working lines will always be superior in health and temperament than show lines, be they American or German. The German show lines also tend to be over angulated or roach-backed which is as bad in my book. Their own breed warden was heard to describe them as walking like frogs with bricks tied to their testicles. Working line dogs tend to be of more moderate build, sounder, and more intelligent. A smart dog doesn't tend to do well in the show ring running in circles day in and day out and looking excited about it. So unfortunately, many breeders out for conformation alone are producing dogs with little brains or health screening. A proper GSD is fit for both the breed ring (is bred to the standard) and for work. A dog with working titles in his pedigree is going to be physically sound. Whether he is from herding, schutzhund, SAR, or something else, he depends on his body not failing him in order to perform his job. Never buy a dog sight unseen. Not from Germany, not from anywhere. If you cannot visit the breeder in her own home and meet at least the dam and preferably both parents, then walk the other way. If you want to find a good breeder, go to trials and speak to the owners of dogs you like. Go to agility or obedience or tracking or herding trials for GSDs. Or Schutzhund. Watch the dogs work. Which dogs are sure footed, fearless, devoted to their handler? That's what a GSD should be and that's what you should be looking for. Whether the dog is of German or American or show or working lines does not set the dog's price. His pedigree does that, because his pedigree is the best predictor you have of how he is going to turn out. The better his chances of succeeding in the breed ring or in ring sport, the higher his price. It also isn't the look of the dog that determines the fit to the owner. It is the dog's temperament. A dog ideal for schutzhund or herding will probably be too much dog for you. Be aware that GSDs are not particularly known for being laid back, in that they are active dogs and need a lot of exercise. That's part of the package. If you don't want a dog that wants to get out and do something for a living, then you don't really want a GSD. Look for OFA certificates on both hips and elbows of parents and at least grandparents, but preferably several generations back. --- edited to add --- @ Jessie: The University of Pennsylvania CREATED the PennHIP test (The "Penn" in PennHIP is from "Pennsylvania"). Of course they are going to find ways to claim it is better than the OFA which has been around longer. That doesn't mean it is so. The OFA ratings match up pretty good with the A stamps in Europe, so that's good enough for me. I've actually done research for the OFA as a biomechanical engineer, so I feel qualified to speak on my own expertise and direct knowledge and offer the info that it is what I use on my own dogs.
5 :
Most important thing is start calling good breeders and explain what you want if they are good they will talk to you and try and match the dog to what you want. I also think make sure they temperament test the dog litter and choose the dog that way.
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